I especially loved the user friendliness of my distro randomly disconnecting my BT mouse and refusing to reconnect. Had to edit grub to get it back to working order.
Or how I changed the lock screen image through settings. Now I can see it - in Settings. Only. Because if I lock my device, I still see the old one.
Or how on Kubuntu, my previous distro, the applications’ menu (the one with “File”, “View”, “Help”, etc.) just disappeared from all apps. Spent two days trying to sort it out and ended up switching to Tuxedo OS.
Such an easy to use OS, especially for those who’ve never done one bit of troubleshooting themselves!
Here’s the problem with sweeping statements on the Internet like the one you just did - you never know who you’re talking to.
You have no clue how hilarious your comment reads from the perspective of someone who’s worked in IT for the past 20 years. :D
Here’s the difference between Linux and Windows TODAY (that’s a CRITICAL point) - the average user gets the OS installed, fires it up and just uses it. If there’s a problem, a reboot will fix it 99% of the time. For that 1% there’s a bajillion different forums where they’ll find help.
Now, Linux? You install it, fire it up, and it runs without issues. Or it doesn’t! You use an app, and it works - or it doesn’t! You start searching for solutions online and find that the issue you’ve had has been resolved but on a different distro, things look different on yours and you have no clue how to proceed.
Windows is not a perfect OS, but it’s as good as it gets (next to MacOS) in terms of “I’m John, this is my first computer, I just learned how to log in and now I want to have some fun”. Linux is FAR from that, still.
Could that be because he’s had fewer issues with Windows and hasn’t had a need to troubleshoot it?
Windows 11 is a shitty version of Windows, but it’s not Windows ME or Vista. It sucks because of the arbitrary CPU and TPM requirements, plus having AI forced into a user’s desktop. Not to mention Microsoft is dragging its feet fixing performance issues in Explorer.
It’s still very stable on good hardware with stable drivers. Point out the actual shit parts of Windows, not lazy callbacks to the days of Windows 98.
Could that be because he’s had fewer issues with Windows and hasn’t had a need to troubleshoot it?
It’s actually the opposite. Worked in IT for 20 years, had to troubleshoot every conceivable issue with Windows.
Here’s the difference: 90% of the time, once you’ve installed the OS, it’s smooth sailing*. If it’s not, reboot, and it will be fine. For the fringe cases, just search online to find help.
This last bit is what kills Linux as “user-friendly OS” - you have one distro, but solutions you find are for five different distros and each one looks and feels slightly differently, so things are in different places.
EDIT:
* I should’ve added: TODAY. It used to be VERY different, but these days? It’s mostly “fire and forget”.
You seem to be confused. We’re talking about an “OS for the masses”. What you’re talking about is so far beyond the “high end for the top tier enthusiasts” that it’s not even funny.
Randomly change registry settings, delete files, install software on the advice of random Internet people/LLMs until the software works or the randomware kicks in.
Thank god you’ve never had to touch a Linux terminal, clearly a fate worse than death.
Randomly change registry settings, delete files, install software on the advice of random Internet people/LLMs until the software works or the randomware kicks in.
See? Here’s your problem. You’re doing random stuff without understanding what it does or even without a guide. Try that on Linux and tell me how well your OS works. :)
In general, seems like you’ve been sheltered from Windows for the past, I don’t know, 15 years? In terms of reliability and stability, 10 and 11 are on par with MacOS.
Looks fairly similar to what you would do on Linux. Change registry to config file (unless you’re using Gnome, then it’s both). You’re right though, on Windows, people don’t usually have paragraph long commands to paste into the terminal to fix some issue. Instead, on Windows you have Microsoft support posts where a “Microsoft Community Support” non-employee pastes non-helpful boilerplate tech support copypasta which are somewhat adjacent to the user’s issue.
Linux at least gives us useful logging and the software packages have documentation that is accessible without paying for a Microsoft Support contract.
The Linux community support can actually fix your problems without boilerplate copypasta and doesn’t cost anything but you’ll get the customer service that you pay for.
Mate, don’t take it the wrong way, but you’re living in a fantasy world if you think an average user has any semblance of idea as to where logs are or how to read them.
The Linux community support can actually fix your problems without boilerplate copypasta
LOL, nice one! :D
I’ve read “just recompile the kernel” together with “just switch to [distro_x]” more times than I can count to… :D
I’m not talking about the average user. I’m talking about how the software is useful to me and other people like me.
The average user needs to be coached on how to double click or to open a PDF. Holding a conversation about any software or technical topic from the point of view of an average user is a fools errand.
I’ve read “just recompile the kernel” together with “just switch to [distro_x]” more times than I can count to… :D
Sure, ignorant people exist. If someone posts about a Windows problem they get the same generic advice as well.
The difference is that even given access to an expert, in Windows you’re limited in how much information that you can get about the problem. If you’re lucky you get an error message that matches an article in a knowledge base which will contain some rote process that allegedly solves the problem. You usually don’t get logs and you have no ability to debug (because the source code is proprietary). If that fails you can open a support ticket and hope, eventually, that someone competent can solve your problem.
Given access to an expert in Linux, you can trace the problem down to a specific line of code in a specific library and know the name and email of the person who wrote it.
In both cases, if an average user was involved they’d immediately give up and post on Reddit about how their computer is dumb.
The OP is about Linux replacing Windows. That means: “Linux for the masses”. THAT means: average users having to deal with all the Linux shit.
The average user needs to be coached on how to double click or to open a PDF. Holding a conversation about any software or technical topic from the point of view of an average user is a fools errand.
Correct. Which is why the issues I listed in my comment make Linux impossible for the average user.
The difference is that even given access to an expert
THAT is also part of the problem. If I’m a noob but know someone who “works in IT” and “uses Windows”, they’ll be able to help me.
If I’m a noob but know someone who “works in IT” and “uses Linux”, I might get help, but I might be shit out of luck. Maybe my issues is unique to KDE and they use Gnome or Xfce? Maybe I have a problem with my Ubuntu, but they’ve been sitting on Fedora for the past 20 years?
if an average user was involved they’d immediately give up and post on Reddit about how their computer is dumb.
That’s false. And, again, I’m saying this as someone who’s worked in IT for the past 20 years - if you have a problem with Windows (nowadays - this is critical), 90% of the time rebooting fixes it.
And sure, a lot of people post about how their computers are shit, because something happened, but the amount of people who can help in the case of Windows is just immeasurably larger than in the case of Linux - because of the massive fragmentation between DEs and distros.
I’ve never heard of someone using bcdedit to change a boot flag, so a Bluetooth adapter will behave.
The lock screen problem I’ve seen myself a while back. At least in my case, I did not have permissions to the session manager config file, and the gui tool did not account for that. But I think I had to install the tool from the repo. It wasn’t part of the base install.
The menu problem could be a Kubuntu or early plasma issue. Either way, not something I’ve ever seen in Windows.
LOL, good one!
I especially loved the user friendliness of my distro randomly disconnecting my BT mouse and refusing to reconnect. Had to edit grub to get it back to working order.
Or how I changed the lock screen image through settings. Now I can see it - in Settings. Only. Because if I lock my device, I still see the old one.
Or how on Kubuntu, my previous distro, the applications’ menu (the one with “File”, “View”, “Help”, etc.) just disappeared from all apps. Spent two days trying to sort it out and ended up switching to Tuxedo OS.
Such an easy to use OS, especially for those who’ve never done one bit of troubleshooting themselves!
Spoken like someone who hasn’t had to troubleshoot Windows
Here’s the problem with sweeping statements on the Internet like the one you just did - you never know who you’re talking to.
You have no clue how hilarious your comment reads from the perspective of someone who’s worked in IT for the past 20 years. :D
Here’s the difference between Linux and Windows TODAY (that’s a CRITICAL point) - the average user gets the OS installed, fires it up and just uses it. If there’s a problem, a reboot will fix it 99% of the time. For that 1% there’s a bajillion different forums where they’ll find help.
Now, Linux? You install it, fire it up, and it runs without issues. Or it doesn’t! You use an app, and it works - or it doesn’t! You start searching for solutions online and find that the issue you’ve had has been resolved but on a different distro, things look different on yours and you have no clue how to proceed.
Windows is not a perfect OS, but it’s as good as it gets (next to MacOS) in terms of “I’m John, this is my first computer, I just learned how to log in and now I want to have some fun”. Linux is FAR from that, still.
Could that be because he’s had fewer issues with Windows and hasn’t had a need to troubleshoot it?
Windows 11 is a shitty version of Windows, but it’s not Windows ME or Vista. It sucks because of the arbitrary CPU and TPM requirements, plus having AI forced into a user’s desktop. Not to mention Microsoft is dragging its feet fixing performance issues in Explorer.
It’s still very stable on good hardware with stable drivers. Point out the actual shit parts of Windows, not lazy callbacks to the days of Windows 98.
It’s actually the opposite. Worked in IT for 20 years, had to troubleshoot every conceivable issue with Windows.
Here’s the difference: 90% of the time, once you’ve installed the OS, it’s smooth sailing*. If it’s not, reboot, and it will be fine. For the fringe cases, just search online to find help.
This last bit is what kills Linux as “user-friendly OS” - you have one distro, but solutions you find are for five different distros and each one looks and feels slightly differently, so things are in different places.
EDIT:
* I should’ve added: TODAY. It used to be VERY different, but these days? It’s mostly “fire and forget”.
2080 ti and 128gb of ram - it is definitely not stable and unlike Linux isn’t ready out of the box
You seem to be confused. We’re talking about an “OS for the masses”. What you’re talking about is so far beyond the “high end for the top tier enthusiasts” that it’s not even funny.
Steps to troubleshoot Windows:
See? Here’s your problem. You’re doing random stuff without understanding what it does or even without a guide. Try that on Linux and tell me how well your OS works. :)
In general, seems like you’ve been sheltered from Windows for the past, I don’t know, 15 years? In terms of reliability and stability, 10 and 11 are on par with MacOS.
Sfc /scannow
Dism something
Are the most common troubleshooting steps and that’s in command prompt
If that doesn’t work then registry
If that doesn’t work reinstall the whole OS
If that doesn’t work just accept that x not working is part of the experience
Looks fairly similar to what you would do on Linux. Change registry to config file (unless you’re using Gnome, then it’s both). You’re right though, on Windows, people don’t usually have paragraph long commands to paste into the terminal to fix some issue. Instead, on Windows you have Microsoft support posts where a “Microsoft Community Support” non-employee pastes non-helpful boilerplate tech support copypasta which are somewhat adjacent to the user’s issue.
Linux at least gives us useful logging and the software packages have documentation that is accessible without paying for a Microsoft Support contract.
The Linux community support can actually fix your problems without boilerplate copypasta and doesn’t cost anything but you’ll get the customer service that you pay for.
Mate, don’t take it the wrong way, but you’re living in a fantasy world if you think an average user has any semblance of idea as to where logs are or how to read them.
LOL, nice one! :D
I’ve read “just recompile the kernel” together with “just switch to [distro_x]” more times than I can count to… :D
I’m not talking about the average user. I’m talking about how the software is useful to me and other people like me.
The average user needs to be coached on how to double click or to open a PDF. Holding a conversation about any software or technical topic from the point of view of an average user is a fools errand.
Sure, ignorant people exist. If someone posts about a Windows problem they get the same generic advice as well.
The difference is that even given access to an expert, in Windows you’re limited in how much information that you can get about the problem. If you’re lucky you get an error message that matches an article in a knowledge base which will contain some rote process that allegedly solves the problem. You usually don’t get logs and you have no ability to debug (because the source code is proprietary). If that fails you can open a support ticket and hope, eventually, that someone competent can solve your problem.
Given access to an expert in Linux, you can trace the problem down to a specific line of code in a specific library and know the name and email of the person who wrote it.
In both cases, if an average user was involved they’d immediately give up and post on Reddit about how their computer is dumb.
But… Everyone else is?
The OP is about Linux replacing Windows. That means: “Linux for the masses”. THAT means: average users having to deal with all the Linux shit.
Correct. Which is why the issues I listed in my comment make Linux impossible for the average user.
THAT is also part of the problem. If I’m a noob but know someone who “works in IT” and “uses Windows”, they’ll be able to help me.
If I’m a noob but know someone who “works in IT” and “uses Linux”, I might get help, but I might be shit out of luck. Maybe my issues is unique to KDE and they use Gnome or Xfce? Maybe I have a problem with my Ubuntu, but they’ve been sitting on Fedora for the past 20 years?
That’s false. And, again, I’m saying this as someone who’s worked in IT for the past 20 years - if you have a problem with Windows (nowadays - this is critical), 90% of the time rebooting fixes it.
And sure, a lot of people post about how their computers are shit, because something happened, but the amount of people who can help in the case of Windows is just immeasurably larger than in the case of Linux - because of the massive fragmentation between DEs and distros.
Yes, if you take memes as literal implemented public policy it can seem like a silly thing.
I’m not going to defend the position that every grandmother and office worker should dump Windows for Linux because it’s a dumb position.
I’m not sure why you would built an entire argument on top of that premise.
Rebooting Windows doesn’t remove the advertisement, data collection, AI integration or TPM requirements… which is driving people to switch to Linux.
Windows never has issues, does it?
Not like that, it doesn’t.
I’ve never heard of someone using bcdedit to change a boot flag, so a Bluetooth adapter will behave.
The lock screen problem I’ve seen myself a while back. At least in my case, I did not have permissions to the session manager config file, and the gui tool did not account for that. But I think I had to install the tool from the repo. It wasn’t part of the base install.
The menu problem could be a Kubuntu or early plasma issue. Either way, not something I’ve ever seen in Windows.
Hey, thanks for being the voice of reason in this thread!
Windows is, by all means, not a perfect OS. But people claiming that it’s “easier to use” for the average user are just detached from reality.