Because the image never gets built if there’s a packaging error, so the user never ends up on a broken image. A broken package never makes it to the end. If it’s broken the user just doesn’t get an image until the package is fixed and then they get a new image.
Updates can be ensured and broken repositories go away entirely that’s the entire point. I don’t think it’s “nice” I would consider that a basic feature in Linux. If you like Linux your way then that doesn’t go away.
I still miss the advantages for these cases.
Zero-maintenance and upgrades.
Update it every once in a while or setup auto updates. I do not see any difference between traditional os and immutable. You’re likely not modifying any system files anyway.
You’re overthinking it, there’s no reason to care if the root disk is readable or not. If it updates reliably out of the box there’s no reason to touch it.
Are they really going to brick their system? That would require opening the terminal. But I mean, fair.
You don’t need to open a terminal to brick a traditional linux system they tend to do that on their own.
What I do not understand is why there are users swearing by bazzite and other immutable distributions. These examples you make is basically for users who just do the most basic operations with their systems.
I can’t speak for “immutable distributions” but for bazzite it’s to ensure working upgrades.
What I do not understand is why technically adept people are so excited for these kinds of distributions?
I’m technically adept at Linux I expect software to work. (system upgrades should work, app installation shouldn’t break the PC, etc.)
This is pure operator error, all of these systems are well documented and are literally linux 101. If the response is “how are normal users supposed to?” the answer is normal users don’t use command line tools.
The person saying that they’re switching to Kinoite is in for a rude surprise when they find out that the virt-manager flatpak everyone is migrating to is written and maintained by the Kinoite maintainer, we helped with the QEMU extension because moving this stuff to userspace is something everyone agrees on.
Hopefully you’ve learned that there are people that claim they need super technical things like virt-manager on the image and yet can’t manage a simple linux service. “Forced Updates”. Images like Bazzite are the antithesis for people who want to be experts without putting in the work.
The entire bazzite build process is well documented, the entire pipeline is implemented with standard CNCF and OpenSSF tooling, the readme has crypto verification that you can run to verify it yourself. These systems have been in place since before Universal Blue went GA (It’s about 5y old).
Fedora being a better choice than Homebrew because it’s update pipeline is too slow is not something anyone should be proud of. The Bazzite images run full syft scans before they’re even finally assembled, if it’s in there that second the build fails and users never see it. The entire industry is moving left on this, with proactive work upstream - “keep old things in the field” is an antipattern.
Hah yeah I spoke to Jon about this stuff at KubeCon. I said something like “Try to keep up!” :)
Lots of common tooling in this space though and getting more attention to open models can only help.
The terminal motd tells you exactly how to use the packages involved when you open it.
Just about everyone who has made meaningful contributions to Bluefin are tinkerers. The entire stack is designed to tinker and customize.
It’s one command in Bluefin, same as everything else.
brew install btop vim
https://docs.projectbluefin.io/command-line/#installing-applications
I feel like they don’t take the time to think things through and throw together. Instead, they throw together a new thing to address the shortcomings of the previous five things.
This is a weird statement it’s designed this way on purpose. You seem to be looking for “one package manager to rule them all” in a world that’s purposely splitting things up.
You can always just get the status updates directly from the project: https://universal-blue.discourse.group/t/a-brighter-future-for-bazzite/11575
All the supported IDEs in bluefin are brew packages and tailscale is included.
No idea on the selinux stuff though.
My thesis is essentially that we’re creating too many package package managers with too many compromises.
Your issues appear to be config/documentation related. What apps am I missing out on by not using system package managers?
package managers, you can do essentially anything.
Yeah, like break your computer, no thanks. :)
No they would brew install neovim. System-level package management goes away entirely, that’s the point.
What new package managers? homebrew has been around for years. What problems are you describing? If you mean read only root that has been around since the 1980s. The problem as you describe it has been removed, you move on from package based entropy to image based systems.
This isn’t a trend, modern linux is this way, it’s just the desktop that has been behind until now.
Bluefin maintainer here, you’ve described how Bluefin works except it’s ~/.local/bin.
I am pretty sure we have not been developing package managers lol.
You’re doing it the correct way, usually the people who are confused are used to their existing linux ways. You only have to learn this way and that will not only be best practice but works on any linux distro.
The immutable gimmick that’s currently going on right now is still way too flavor of the month for new users who are trying to learn from a ground set of nothing.
New users aren’t going to administer their computers either. there’s no “flavor of the month” it’s just teaching new users how to administer linux systems properly. And of course directions on the internet are going to be incorrect, the only correct solution is to follow the documentation, not random guides on the internet.
It’s an image, there’s no such thing as “left all over the place”. Source: I’m one of the maintainers.
It is 100% possible and people have been doing it for years. If the package is broken the final product is never built, it’s impossible to ship it to the end user since it’s one whole complete image.