I can only see this going into a very dystopian path. Based on their actions, I don’t trust these companies, their security practices, nor their privacy policies. Why would I give them my biometrics? And my full palm, at that!? Hell no!
I didn’t know paying in body parts was legal.
It’s a brave new world, it seems
One scar away from losing access to your ability to pay …
Biometrics can not really be changed. Except maybe through time or trauma (i.e. age or injury). They can be used to uniquely(?) identify a person - except maybe twins - at the expense of anonymity, which has it’s own set of problems.
But because they can not easily be changed they’re a terrible security feature. Once they leak, they’re unusable and you’re hosed. You can’t issue a new palm print for your bank account like you could a new chip card and password.
Also, just because you waved your hand over a scanner does not mean that you approve and consent of the transaction. With tap to pay there were ideas of mobile point of sales devices just tapping on peoples backpacks in a crowded area. You don’t even keep your biometrics markers in your pocket, they’re just out in the open for anyone with a camera. This may be bordering on paranoia, but a few years back (2014) German hackers from Chaos Computer Club took iris scans from Angela Merkel (then Chancellor of Germany) and finger prints of Ursula von der Leyen (then Minister of defense) using nothing but press fotos. Cameras have only gotten better.
TL;DR: Biometrics can be used for identification but should never be used for authorisation.
Biometrics also aren’t great and uniqueness. At least where computers are concerned.
Recently we had one of our customers install fingerprint readers on their points of sale, the idea being any staff member can log in just by touching the pad. Even with only a few hundred staff registered, you get people logging in as each other.
I worked with Kronos, had their top tier biometrics in a 1,000+ employee company.
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The data is only as good as the person loading the data.
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Some people don’t have good fingerprints.
It was bad enough that of you had a person with a bad fingerprint, Kronos would just take ANY input. It would even tell you if a persons fingerprint wasn’t good enough. It happened fucking constantly.
So either it’s so good you can’t escape it, it is so bad you can’t use it to identify anyone uniquely. It’s literally either a threat or an inconvenience.
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Paying with your phone works on the presumption that your phone is locked and you accept responsibility for ensuring your phone wasn’t breached. It uses contactless technology, but it’s still effectively chip and pin as far as your bank is concerned.
Meanwhile, paying with a contactless card is processed as “cardholder not present” where the seller assumes de facto liability and must prove otherwise. Contactless payments were never a new type of card processing, it was a new method but is categorised the same as when mail/phone ordering from a catalogue. The same with online purchases. They were always a step below card & signature or chip & pin. Paying with your phone is the same as chip & pin though, where the onus is on you to ensure the transaction is secure.
Paying with your hand has all sorts of issues making it impractical. You would definitely need an additional confirmation eg PIN, but claiming that your hand is as secure as a traditional card doesn’t lend well to pinning the liability on you. So banks are unlikely to use it.
Body parts aren’t secure. They’re removable.
And probably imitable, if not, soon enough.
Stop telling people their body is insecure. Everyone is beautiful!
Except me.
Its hard to believe anyone would use the thing. It’ll be more problematic if/when its used for regulatory purposes. Sort of at the desensitization still. Today.
I had to take a State exam for licensure a few years back. I was told that I had to take a palm/vein scan to prove my identity. I informed her Ive never had one so it could not prove my identity-- but hey, Im the crazy one. Its on a server somewhere now tho… Modernity is pretty stupid, tbh.
I would probably use it. Sounds convenient, don’t have to take out my phone or wallet.
Most folks probably would. Privacy is often at odds with convenience.
I just don’t subscribe to the slippery slope arguments I am provided when it comes to privacy. I and I suspect most other people just prefer convenience to some hypothetical threat to what I am not sure.
Makes me concerned for our future. Given we have one, that is.
Naturally. But don’t get black-pilled :] They want us demoralized.
The thing it these readers are so convenient, my only complain is I wish they would work as the password hash technology. But as of right now we don’t know for sure if that machine is saving a “hash” of your palm or is directly saving a copy of the original biometric data that would allow it to “recreate” your biometric ID somewhere else
I dont think its even that convenient! It requires electricity, web connectivity and loads of digital logic. My state ID just tangibly exists.
Then there’s always the old, “Hey, I’ll cut off this dude’s hand and use it to buy stuff until he runs out of credit – or rigor mortis sets in.”
No, I dont own a hard crypto wallet :3 plz dnt chop
This happened when car companies brought out fingerprint car alarms. Thieves would just cut your finger off and steal your car.
Holy crap, what? Can you point me to any articles or sources to read more about this?
I like to do this at Whole Foods in front of my anti vax friends and tell them about how cool it is to have a chip that lets me pay by waving my hand.
Embedded RFID? How is it like living with one of those in you? Deviant talks about how convenient they can be for cloning things like your hotel room key.
They let the early adopters get the happy water from the tap. I’ve been getting so much more done lately! Have wonderful day!
All this trouble and they didn’t even make the scanner shaped like a hand so you can high five it. Waste of potential.
Shit no! You know what you can’t change if/when they inevitably leak your data? Your fucking hand.
I’ve got a bucket of golf balls and a 12ft 2x4 that says otherwise
Damn, that’s a deep cut type of joke, I love it!
Uhh. Have you seen men in black? /s
Someone took the novel “The Java Script Café” from “Stealing the network: How to own an identity” (page 141) and made a business model for it.
Removed by mod
Haha sorry, mate. Yeah, I wish it was that. I’d whip mine out real quick.
How do you open your phone? Finger print?
I use a code, and I also use CalyxOS.
The fingerprint in the phone is stored and verified locally, no way this is the case here.
It’s okay, only Jeff Bezos and three weird sysadmin dudes can see your fingerprints. Don’t worry bro. /s
Is that scanner made from Amazon? Jesus.
Whole foods is Amazon, so, kind of yea
Yup
Where is this?? Whole foods?
Yup
Yup
Why not just with the phone…?
Because my hands are filthy. I don’t want to get my phone all sticky/muddy/bloody or anything else you can imagine.
I used my CC and for out of there with my cake.
Be careful not to raise your arm too high… 💀
I think as long as you stay in the green zone?
Anything higher than petting pets is already too risky. Especially in modern day Germany.
contactless cards are already a thing. why why why
