I’d like to start a discussion about TV privacy in 2023. I’ve never been interested in having a TV, but recently I was thinking of getting one. Looking into it, the privacy implications seem horrible. All the major brands seem to have cameras, microphones, and content recognition software. I can’t believe how dystopian it is.
I also notice that most of the articles about this are from a few years ago. Are things better now? Do they still collect an Orwellian amount of data?
As I understand it, there are a few mitigation options:
- Leave it disconnected from the internet and use a separate device for streaming. But it sounds like some brands have incessant nag screens, or disable features until connected to the internet. I was looking into the Samsung Frame TV, but I’m not even sure you can use the art mode without internet. Does anyone know?
- Pi-hole set up with a blocklist. It’s disheartening that such a technical solution would be necessary.
- Get a commercial “dumb” display. These are more expensive, and usually thicker.
- Go through the menu and disable privacy violating settings. Does this work? I’m doubtful.
edit: Just to be clear, I am NOT talking about the normal sort of ad tracking that happens when you use streaming services. Netflix knows what you’re watching regardless of what device you use. I’m talking about stuff like a hidden camera recording your facial reactions, microphones recording your private conversations, and screen recording of your viewing activities. This is sci-fi dystopia level creepy.
A german magazine just made a video on that topic. You can activate english subtitles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBSEHpU-pyI
They tested a bunch of smart tvs and tv-sticks and their network activites.
They say that roku devices were the most privacy friendly tv-sticks.And if you dont care about warranty voiding, open the tv and tape the things you dont want. Mic, cam, etc. Its probably the cheapest option
They say that roku devices were the most privacy friendly.
Really? I remember the exact opposite. Isn’t it the brand that requires you to connect the TV to internet (and maybe even register am account, but I’m not sure about that now) before you can use it for anything?
Yeah, that seems odd. Wouldn’t the Apple TV be the most privacy friendly commercial streaming box?
Why does a TV need a fucking camera?
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=hBSEHpU-pyI
https://piped.video/watch?v=hBSEHpU-pyI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Try Kofi with a dumb tv
Ive used pihole and also just removed the network’s settings.
If you want to stream, i don’t know how useful any of these mitigations are. You’re giving them some data to subscribe and use. Even if you share accounts, who knows what the apps collect.
I’m aware of and OK with the idea that Netflix (or whatever) knows what I’m watching on their service when I’m logged in. I’m not OK with the TV itself collecting extra data, especially automated content recognition or my private conversations with their microphone. It’s nuts that that’s allowed.
Well you see… We are cattle and people in charge of mega corporations are our ranchers.
This for me is the biggest privacy issue. The FBI having contracts which allow them to turn on and collect whatever data certain device can acquire, its fully bonkers. These contracts focus on massively sold devices. iPhones, Androids, along with Samsung TV’s have all been caught in the same mess. So I’d say keep searching for a TV until you find one which fits your threat model. They want you to give and buy a Samsung TV, so fuck em and keep on keepin on!
Honestly, a PC monitor and a separate device connected to it is probably much less bullshit.
Pihole is nice to have regardless of TVs.
Commercial displays are usually very overpriced, although if you can get a good deal that could be nice.
Not sure I’d “trust” any such menu.
I thought PC monitors would be higher priced than commercial displays, but I haven’t really looked into it. It sounds like I should get a pihole either way.
I’ve never bought a TV. I’ve used computer screens for the past 30 years because you can sit closer to them, they’re higher quality, and they do just one thing.
In the 90s, I had a HiFi VCR plugged into my monitor.
In answer to the original question: yes, you can, but you’re unlikely to. Today’s TVs are subsidized by invading your privacy and selling the data. Anyone not doing that couldn’t compete in the market.
It’s still just as bad. We leave ours disconnected from the internet, but a quick note here: I’ve heard of some tv’s auto-connecting to open WiFi networks if available (though ours does not and nobody near us has an open WiFi network). We just have a very generic Hisense tv from 2019 I think
just wait until “5g” network slicing becomes more of a thing, soon you’ll see all these manufacturers putting UE chipsets in them to bypass end user wifi completely… that’s really what the commercial IoT vision has been about all along, big data => dangerous (🎵 cool ‘indie’ music plays 🎵)
I’ve heard of some tv’s auto-connecting to open WiFi networks if available
I thought my tv did this. Can anyone confirn if this actually was caught?
Couldn’t you just create a hotspot that has no internet connection and log what connects to it? And if something does you could unplug your TV and see if it disconnected.
Wow that’s another level of deceptive. Do you know if the major brands like Samsung, LG, and Sony do things like that? Or are they all equally shitty at this point?
You can use a shotgun to hard jailbreak it.
nearly asked you for a tutorial, then re-read lolol…
shotgun_aarch64_arm_explodit, you never used it?
Don’t ever trust a “smart” TV until you’ve installed Linux on it. All of the ones I’ve bought so far (the cheapest available at Wal-Mart, usually) are willing to display things without ever having been allowed a network connection. If you manage to buy one that isn’t, return it and complain vigorously.
It didn’t cross my mind that I could run Linux on a tv. (I figured, however, that the pre-installed software is built on Linux.) Are you talking about something like LinuxTV.org
TV left offline. Small computer(I use linux) attached. Wireless keyboard with a trackpad.
I’ve been doing this for years.
I saw a story a while back about Smart TVs automatically connecting to open WiFi networks to phone home even without the user configuring anything.
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There are no open connections around me unless they have an agreement with a cell carier
Arch btw
And how do you handle cable, if you have that is. Or do you use IPTV?
100% streaming on the web
I’ve said this before on Lemmy, but you may want to consider getting a projector instead. They (usually) don’t have any smart-capabilities or Internet connectivity, and with the right setup, the screen size can be bigger than even the biggest consumer TV on the market.
The cons are that you need to be in a dark room, and if you want a really good projector (which you will), it’ll be just as expensive, or even more expensive than buying a TV. Also projectors don’t have OLED.
I think projectors are great. In fact, I currently have one. But there are lots of trade offs. They’re big and take up lots of space, especially the good ones. Placement can be awkward even if you get a short throw, unless you ceiling mount, which isn’t always practical. Relatedly, it can be a pain to hook up to sound because the projector is in the back while you need sound from the front. Image quality can be decent but is still way worse than pretty much all modern TVs. (I hear laser projectors kinda fix this but they’re even more expensive.) It doesn’t turn on instantly; there’s typically a significant warm up period for the lamp. Some units have a noisy fan because the lamp produces a lot of heat. You need a large clear wall space or a rollable screen. I think there’s a reason why projectors are typically in movie rooms and not for more casual spaces.
All this to say, projectors are great but not for all contexts. I wish the decision to get a projector and the decision to get a privacy respecting device were two completely unrelated decisions.
Unfortunately, that no longer seems to be the case. I just did a research and almost all projectors that came into question for me now also have smart features.
For the moment, I’ve settled with our TV staying disconnected. All the ‘smart’ features are managed by an Nvidia shield Pro with LineageOS.
Any downsides with lineage or all systems functional?
Some apps may complain about the lack of Google if you don’t install Microg. But apart from that, been really happy. This was one of the last parts of my life I was waiting to properly degoogle.
Yeah. In my testing on my Shield 2019 Pro, with Lineage, my biggest problems were:
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No Dolby Vision
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No AI Upscaling
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No App Switcher (Could no longer double press the home button to switch apps)
There were also some other little bugs here and there, but those were my biggest problems with LineageOS over Stock, so I didn’t stick with it. I’m currently just using my Shield on Stock, but with all Google apps and other bloatware and garbage removed through ADB, and while not perfectly ideal, its been a good enough experience, and I think by far the best option currently for a TV box.
Ah great thanks for the response, I’m doing the same, stock with degoogling as much as possible. I end up using upscaling and the app switcher a lot so your reply has been most helpful for me to decide not to try lineage on it right now…
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I recently bought a not-smart TV, and it was cheaper than the smart ones. The brand is Sceptre, 65" 4K UHD and - I just checked - it is still selling for $378 at a popular American box retailer’s website who will remain unnamed. 75" is selling for $498.
I absolutely hate the software-ification of everything. It’s worse than worthless. Last TV I bought has held up for almost a decade now. It is 55" and it cost me almost $800, which was a steal at the time. I was kinda floored by the price of the new one, and the picture’s pretty sweet too.
you’re lucky. in my country one can’t get a dumb tv bigger than 32". nobody sells it. not online, not in brick and mortar stores.
my tv is less than a year old. four firmware updates (allowed through the pihole to try to fix an audio bug… but no luck there yet) so far and now the ‘smart’ bits are laggy and slow. the one app that i started to actually like over its web site can’t handle more than a few hours now without freezing up (the tv needs to be restarted to ‘fix’). it was fast and fine and could run for days on end before. at the rate its performance is deteriorating, it’ll be unusable before its 2 year warranty is up.
which is all by design, i’m sure. yea, you might ‘force’ me into another tv, but you can’t make me buy another one of your pieces of shit.
if it gets any worse, the tv is getting factory reset and never touching the net again. i might be able to salvage a few years out of it as a monitor before some cheap sub-component inside dies.
May I ask why you updated the firmware? I keep seeing people say that they disconnect the tv from the internet except for firmware updates, but if it works fine on day one and it’s always off line, why upgrade the firmware at all?
Hisense TVs come with a physical microphone switch that disables the mic. Idk if this is on the budget end of TVs but I paid about 1500 for mine and it has it.
I think you should look into Plasma Big screen
Bout 7 years ago I bought a Vizio tv because it was dumb; all the smart features were via a table it came with that chrome cast to the tv. I was reasonably happy with it.
Then in 2018 they pushed a firmware update that made it smart, and literally made the remote that came with the tv useless; you needed to buy a new one from them to use the tv. And naturally it was always out of stock.
Needless to say I won’t be buying a Vizio ever again. I just do LG tvs now, and don’t let them on the network; all streaming is via Apple TV.
I always wondered if I could install a private OS on a smart TV but never found one.
I like Android TVs because I can install f-droid apps on them. Like Cloudstream. I tried to debloat my TV by connecting my laptop to it and running the adb command to remove any bad apps I noticed, but even that’s not perfect.
I wanna become an android developer someday and I might look into developing privacy apps focused on Android TVs.
Edit: I removed google play and it’s services, so spyware shouldn’t be getting updates on my TV and I got it a few years ago now, I think it’s ok for privacy right now.
