“All other things are propaganda”, you can’t consider that anyone, anywhere in any of these NATO-countries would disagree with this decision? You don’t believe that? Then you are hopeless. A useful pawn for the ruling class, to be discarded with the rest once your usefulness runs its course. There is no hope trying to change your mind if you are so far gone as to think that, especially now in this exchange. You probably won’t see the collapse as it comes, but don’t say you weren’t warned.

oh hey, it’s shitlib and his little buddy turbolib. not gonna engage with you either.

I ain’t gonna engage in a bad faith argument with you, but good luck in the war to you.

that’s the crux of my argument i’d say. there is no alternative for the people but to agree with their leaders, even if they personally disagree. My solution now would be a communist revolution with an armed vanguard party, followed by an immediate disentanglement from the west, NATO, EU and Euro, with stronger ties to both the AES countries and Russia, though Russia might not trust us for obvious reasons. This would facilitate the improving of the local workers’ material conditions and thus improve the living conditions degraded for the capitalist class’ interests. The revolution and armed class struggle is needed because without it we’d subject ourselves to possible coups by foreign capitalist forces empowering the local fascist elements. Though they’d keep trying this never the less obviously. NATO needs its frontline, after all. Unfortunately for us, no such vanguard party seems to exist in Finland and the workers are left forced to agree to whatever whims the rulers have for us.

Voting doesn’t change shit you fucking imbecile, representative democracy is part of the problem along with capitalism.

What if the fear of Russian invasion was facilitated by western powers, though the western-aligned states’ supposedly “free” press and other means like influencer psyops to drive through the undemocratic decision to join NATO? https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/MICIMATT

There were no public referendums here in Finland or anything before joining, just constant fear mongering and then an (imo) unjustified governmental decision.

Nobody asked the population if we wanted to join NATO, if we even believed Russia to be a threat, fuckface! This whole shit was an incredible show how undemocratic the whole west has always been. And still there are unthinking fucking dipshits like you, liberal or fascist – which doesn’t even fucking matter cause you’re made of the same fucking cloth anyway, parroting the same fucking talking points that the western puppets in charge are making! Why do you choose to be so fucking blind? You fucking sheep, you absolute fucking infantile fool!

That’s exactly right. As the article itself shows it was a liberal and “social-democratic” and women-lead government of Sanna Marin which laid the groundwork for the local (far-)right to drive us into the fascist NATO’s arms. The votes are made up, it’s the money that matters. But the finnish people are too proud and too propagandized to consider that their country could actually be one of the bad ones, and that they too could be mislead by said countries. Also finns are inherently racist and xenophobic, and have a long and outstanding history with fascism

“Tankie” is just another pejorative for communist, which you most certainly are not. So you go around spouting bullshit and lies and fear mongering with war for what? Because you are a scared fool, just as these western governments want you to be. And next you’ll be cannonfodder for them. Just stop, go away.

Disgusting. “dismantling the welfare state, condemning multiple of the marginalized and vulnerable to poverty, homelessness and hunger and working closely with the various fascist entities is bad and all, but have you considered the RuZzIaNs?”. I hope you get that fucking war you’re mongering for, and I hope you die in it, you fucking fascist.

The government here loves to just do things. There was no public referendum before joining NATO, the government just chose to do so and only informed its population afterwards. This is how it has been for as long as I can remember. They mentioned having hosted “Israeli” weapon manufacturers last May, but only after-the-fact, and also they mentioned that they’ve been working with Palantir for the past decade already. They don’t care, they do whatever the fuck they want up there. This country is so cooked bro, and its completely every single politicians’ fault. They should all face firing squads. I hate this fucking place.

Sure if you believe that’s what it is, like what the western press keeps telling us it is. But one might strive to pierce the veil of propaganda to see a larger battle unfolding, one where the old world order of the western capitalist countries tries to combat the new order being spearheaded by China, DPRK etc. So me, and most communists like me, see this conflict in Ukraine in the context of anti-imperialist struggle, where the democratic government of Ukraine was illegally couped by NATO and other western forces to empower the local fascists to goad Russia into securing its border (as areas in Ukraine are mostly flat and dry, as opposed to areas north which are wetlands and lakes. Can’t run military equipment through a swamp, the Nazis used the same route), while starting a simultaneous ethnic cleansing and civil war with the russophone minority on its eastern border. These same areas held referendums to secede from Ukraine after the 2014 fascist coup. AFAIK the hope was to strangle Russia with economic sanctions following open hostilities, but this has failed spectacularly and thus has lead to the grueling war of attrition unfolding before us. The fundamental misunderstanding here is that it is Ukraine’s government that is serving imperialist interests, those of the US and EU.

“Propaganda!” cries the most propagandized, and continues to close their eyes and cover their ears. You will not refute because you can not refute. NATO started this conflict by empowering the local fascists and the 2014 coup. Or did you miss how they gave a hero’s funeral to another actual NSDAP collaborator? No amount of cope, no amount denialism about it will change the fact that you are supporting an openly fascist state. And why? Because your state (surprise, just as fascist!) told you so! Or do you believe yourself to be so wise as to be immune to propaganda? Typical western chauvinism. And still you dare strut about calling others propagandized. Shame on you. Shame. Shut your mouth and open your eyes and ears, for once, and you might still find yourself capable of acquiring new information. Though I personally really fucking doubt it, seeing the amount of bullshit the average western lib still believes…

nah bud, i’m chill. you seem to be crashing hard in the replies tho. ever consider you might have been mislead somewhere along the way to supporting a fascist puppet regime in a war of imperialist aggression? how often do you generally doubt your own conceptions about the world? but oh wait sorry, a western liberal reading western liberal news could never be mislead. silly me.

u mad bro?

the fuck you on about fuckface? where’s the source? or do you like get off spewing bullshit online? nasty ass bih

A Pole pretending to speak chinese, to deflect from criticism after spreading American propaganda about their failing enterprises? You are beyond parody, you are just absolutely fucking pathetic. Go die for the nazis in Ukraine or something, surely there are more pressing issues at home for you too.

Holy hells, I love it when the libs cloak their condescending attitude and western brainworms in a holier than thou sense of trying to help or something. Why don’t you go offer your “help” to someone who asks for it, or are that kinda person who doesn’t care for consent?

But they are condemning the nazism! Youi cannot be openly nazi, but you absolutely can be openly racist and chauvinistic. Par for the course in the west I’d say, seeing how many “russia bad”, “stop sucking putin’s dick”, “go back to daddy putin” type bullshit is spewed absolutely fucking everywhere. Also I think you’re confusing me for someone else, seeing your attack on a fucking strawman right there. Why don’t you grow up and then try argumenting again? But no, you won’t, because it’s apparently me who’s propagandaized and untihinking, willfully and gleefully eating the imperial koolaid. get fucked, removed. maybe you’ll see the errors of your opinions once the nazis in ukraine hang in nooses and the war is over. though i’m not holding my breath.

yes, because surely the people who’ve been guilty of lying multiple times in the past and are still trying to lie for israel would never lie about this? surely?